Build talk:P/A Dagger Spammer
Archive 1 Okay, now for some constructive criticism of the new build. Starting with the name... any better ideas? - AthrunFeya - 22:09, January 11, 2010 (UTC) :think of names as the easiest way for people to find a build. If someone wants to find this, it should be something like TPIY Daggers. —''The preceding unsigned comment was added by'' Gringo (talk • ) (UTC). 22:10, January 11, 2010 (UTC) ::Something like 'Power Dagger Para' >.>Digitalfear 22:13, January 11, 2010 (UTC) :::Yes, the new name is cool [[User:Tyraelxy|'Tyrael']] Undead! 22:18, January 11, 2010 (UTC) Blazing Finale :o? Or am i just bad? [[User:Novii|'«No']][[User_talk:Novii|'vii«']] 22:26, January 11, 2010 (UTC) :Not enough room on the bar, plus it's not really a great choice. Life Guardian 00:05, January 12, 2010 (UTC) This might work with zealous daggers... even with that your ias is terrible without being drunk. Oh yeah have fun with the 2 energy regen (1 with zealous daggers). If you are blinded or blocked, you can't gain energy as efficiently and your regen is bad, so TNTF becomes annoying to reach. Maybe wild spear? Also, if you have GFTE and TPIY, have you tried aggressive refrain?Idk what is with the inundation of "unique" *cough* paragon builds lately. It seems like people are /desperate/ for non-imbagon pve paragon builds; good luck. Rikk Panda 01:14, January 12, 2010 (UTC) :You're running GftE + TPIY on <1s attack intervals. There is no way you would have energy problems with this. -- 01:17, January 12, 2010 (UTC) ::This is actually plausible now that they have taken away the recharge for GFTE.--Ikimono "...And my axe!" 03:15, January 12, 2010 (UTC) ::leave rikk alone, he's naturally bad, and rikk, read the archive. has amazing e-management for a para so stfu. also its great--Bluetapeboy 01:26, January 12, 2010 (UTC) :::Rikk's arguments usually make a decent amount of sense tbh. Life Guardian 02:22, January 12, 2010 (UTC) :AR gives you 60AL (or 70 with cents) AL at most times, which is real bad at front line. With TPIY's up you have 2 regen and zealous, and also, 2 spammable shouts = lolenergy on a paragon. :And another think with this chain the IAS isn't that big of a deal tbh. --Frosty 03:00, January 12, 2010 (UTC) ::AL matters in PvE? -- 04:13, January 12, 2010 (UTC) :::PvX seems to think so. Too bad they're lolwrong. Life Guardian 04:16, January 12, 2010 (UTC) ::::Actually they wouldn't be completely wrong, especially if you're into semi-pulling and tanking stuff, which I do often in HM. There isn't really a significant difference between 15% or 25% ias on a dagger build (if you really think thats an issue you'd use alcohol), at least not enough to warrant perma cracked armor. - AthrunFeya - 09:38, January 12, 2010 (UTC) frosty didnt we make an HA build using these a while ago? happen to have that saved? —''The preceding unsigned comment was added by'' Gringo (talk • ) (UTC). 04:22, January 12, 2010 (UTC) : : : : : : : <3 --Frosty 11:07, January 12, 2010 (UTC) :needs more finale of restoration :( Brandnew 12:57, January 12, 2010 (UTC) ::Anet screwed finale of restoration [[User:Tyraelxy|'Tyrael']] Undead! 13:27, January 12, 2010 (UTC) :::It's funny that this version actually has better energy managment than an assassin... [[User:Tyraelxy|'Tyrael']] Undead! 14:13, January 12, 2010 (UTC) :i would never put anthem of fury in a build, you saved the wrong version :( —''The preceding unsigned comment was added by'' Gringo (talk • ) (UTC). 19:33, January 12, 2010 (UTC) ::I can asure you this was the version we had in TB, it wasn't really perfected. --Frosty 02:57, January 13, 2010 (UTC) i tried this with a PvP paragon on the mob with allies and enemies, and this was great. w? zealous daggers there was no such thing as "energy" i spammed shouts so much there was no such thing as "energy" as you can spam your attacks thoughtlessly, but you also have to mash the shout buttons.--Bluetapeboy 21:32, January 12, 2010 (UTC) :::you should run it. Would be fun to see/play Exo Oo 17:21, January 14, 2010 (UTC) Actually This could be a working (not great or even close to it, and not an alternative I would pick to just using a spear) build if it was an absolute necessity. The PvE stance helps with IAS but requires drunkedness for maximum effectiveness. Using Aggressive Refrain would be another route for an unstrippable IAS source as it is easy to keep up with TPIY and GFTE. The armor actually is annoying in pve, and you can go look up all the Armor vs. Health debates if you want to, such as QQ's old one and other variations, but 60 armor daggers is definitely flaunting on the edge of silliness in all respects. Of course if you do use AR with heroes and henchman (I assume this because any player would probably kick you from his/her party after discovering you were a Dagger Paragon) then they will blow their energy on removing the cracked armor that is reapplied every second or so. I'm sure the rest falls into place after that I'm tired of typing. Rikk Panda 00:52, January 13, 2010 (UTC) :hmm, what was that paragraph in aid of exactly? issue was resolved, drunken is still quite good without alcohol and AR has been put in variants. The damage of this build is so much better than any spear build, especially when combined with the right heroes - AthrunFeya - 00:58, January 13, 2010 (UTC) ::Was not to the aid of anything or to the dismay of anything else. I posted it though. So apparently people will see it. I can see it would work with echoes well, and if the person playing it is happy with drunken then so be it.Rikk Panda 01:05, January 13, 2010 (UTC) :::First 2 skills are .5 sec activation, a great ias isn't "that" necessary. Armor doesn't matter, lern2Prot Spirit. Plus it's 70 with centurions. This build will do so much more damage than a spear it's ridiculous. Life Guardian 01:08, January 13, 2010 (UTC) ::::why would you want to play a bloody paragon anyways..... sin is way better... crit strikes... and u get a free elite spot and free secondary profession for ias spot... i really dont see the point here... i also cant see the point why you can solo slaverz but still this game is going no where:L-- 09:27, January 13, 2010 (UTC) :::::Shame you can't reroll in PvE. If you want titles (for whatever strange reason) on a paragon, you sadly are forced to play a paragon, so might as well make the most of it. - AthrunFeya - 17:24, January 14, 2010 (UTC) ::::::Might as well call it "Drunk Shouting Brawler" or something along that line. Nothing like someone getting drunk, shouting stuff, and getting into fistfights (funnier if using brass knuckles). -- [[User_talk:WhiteAsIce|'WhiteAsIce']] 03:56, January 17, 2010 (UTC) Heroes How well does this work on heroes? Anyone tested? They wouldn't be able to use dwarven, but that isn't much of an issue because they could use aggressive (also needs testing) or no ias at all. If they spam TPIY enough with GFTE I was thinking running it with another hero motigon with Finale of Resto to trigger is a lot. Also frees up player spot for imbagon.Rikk Panda 20:17, January 13, 2010 (UTC) :Aggressive has to be microed, and they generally dont deal too well with dagger chains - AthrunFeya - 23:19, January 13, 2010 (UTC) run finale of restoration on a hero, micro it, cast it only on yourself, and the point of having 60 armro is irrelevant. you heal out all the damage. and the point of "why would i run a para? sins are better" first off, you would run this if you didnt need/already had an imbagon. "well if u have an imbagon already why not run a sin" because im trying to do stuffs on my para. lol.--Bluetapeboy 21:31, January 13, 2010 (UTC) :saying that this is worse compared to sin because of crit strikes, see GFTE! you get crits al the time w/ it. dunno what ur tlakin about.--Bluetapeboy 21:32, January 13, 2010 (UTC) ::Uh so to use Agg refrain, you need another hero? Just to maintain finale of restoration? That seems to me like a char spot wasted (of course not at all, but you can take better options). Also, 60 AL in frontline means instand KO's unless protted. Some big heals won't help u that much. I think your better off with a monk casting PS/SB on uSebv2727 13:42, January 17, 2010 (UTC) :::Idk why people are saying that this has more armor than a sin when the sin has Critical Agility... -- [[User_talk:WhiteAsIce|'WhiteAsIce']] 08:42, February 2, 2010 (UTC) ::::because theres a primary class called the PARAGON also assassin isnt the only primary class. if u want to play assassin go play it, u wanna play a paragon run imbagon or this nuffsaid now go back to your own life kthxbai -- 11:50, February 2, 2010 (UTC) :::::lulwut. anyway, the sin build is prone to enchant strip etc. - AthrunFeya - 11:55, February 2, 2010 (UTC) Sneak Attack Might work as a nice lead to blind, I realize it's not as spammable as Jagged but a variant. Mr Pink57 00:55, February 4, 2010 (UTC) :Spammable is the whole point, to keep tpiy up :p also your name is familiar, do you know Tsuki Hitotsu? - AthrunFeya - 00:59, February 4, 2010 (UTC) soothing images soothing images is a pain in the ass for an imbagon. however with this they dont even cast it on you which is so full of win. when i first tested this i was vanqing in nf on an imbagon soothing images rapes it. so i tried this out and much to my surprise the ai doesnt use this on u ever! i think it should be noted on the page if vq a place with alot of ibogas to use this over an imbagon. tl;dr if ibogas are present this > imbagon Uraniumjoint 00:28, February 14, 2010 (UTC) :or just wield daggers on your imba while they're around - strong. - AthrunFeya - 11:59, February 14, 2010 (UTC) ::oh yes such a great idea...not. they still know and cast it on you, pls play the game and not theorycraft lame answers kthnx baiUraniumjoint 20:47, February 15, 2010 (UTC) :::Oh the irony of that statement..... [[User:Karate Jesus|'Karate']] [[User_talk:Karate Jesus|'Jesus']] 20:56, 15 February 2010 ::::lol /fail Exo Oo 21:23, February 15, 2010 (UTC) :::LAWL I have not tested this and I doubt I shall, however I would think that soothing images is cast on the player if they are using attack skills that use adrenaline. If the attack skills use energy it won't be cast. I mean, how often do you see a ranger, dervish, or assassin get hit with soothing images. I could be horribly wrong but it sounds like the AI use Soothing Images in that manner.--[[User:Jarad|'Jarad']] 23:30, February 15, 2010 (UTC) :It's more likely to be based on the type of weapon you're wielding. This is the case in other places in gws (eg, things only cast chaos storm on you if you're wielding a staff/wand, regardless of skills). So if you're wielding a spear, hammer, axe or sword this will probably happen - AthrunFeya - 00:11, February 16, 2010 (UTC) ::As Athrun said, AI bases target priority for certain skills on what type of weapon that target is wielding. For example, if you use a caster spear, you'll often get anti-physical skills cast on you even if you're a caster. Basically, GW AI is pretty stupid most of the time. [[User:Karate Jesus|'Karate']] [[User_talk:Karate Jesus|'Jesus']] 01:23, 16 February 2010 :::lol, that it is. I guess I should check out soothing images with a warrior's endurance build since that would be a good indicator. --[[User:Jarad|'Jarad']] 18:13, February 16, 2010 (UTC) :::as a side note, if soothing images is based on weapon type, then just go with a short bow on your imba to keep your range. =) --[[User:Jarad|'Jarad']] 18:15, February 16, 2010 (UTC) ::::I'm really late to the discussion, but I should point this out: I've been vanq'ing NF noob island with my Sin, and I get hit with Soothing images all the time. I'm running the Dagger Spammer with SY. So no, it doesn't work specifically with weapons. -- Jai 13:09, June 22, 2010 (UTC) :::::Are you using any adrenaline heroes/henchmen? Soothing Images has an AoE, so it could be spreading from them. Just check to be thorough. [[User:Toraen|'Toraen']]TheJanitorimage:ToraenSig2.png 17:14, 22 June 2010 (UTC) ::::::Happened today too. All of my heroes were casters, and I had a derv, a para, and 2 monks for henchies. They might have targetted Sogolon, but every time I hit a Fanged/Mirage Iboga I had Soothing Images on me. I really doubt it was AoE coming from Sogolon, considering I was ahead of the henchies. It does seem strange, though: I'm only running one adren skill, and never use anything but daggers (and occasionally a longbow, but almost never for plant mobs). I still stand by my belief that AI knows your skillbar at least to some degree. -- Jai 21:42, June 24, 2010 (UTC) :::::::The AI does know your skillbar. If you have warrior adren skills, you get owned by soothing. However, it appears that the AI doesn't acknowledge para adren skills as adren skills. Life Guardian 21:46, June 24, 2010 (UTC) ::::::::Yup, that would make sense. -- Jai 05:06, June 25, 2010 (UTC) P/D Scythe Spammer? Why would you want to use this build instead of using a scythe? 21:08, March 3, 2010 (UTC) :Probably energy concerns. I haven't run either yet, so I don't know for sure if a P/D would be able to maintain energy. Here's a writeup for it, although I think P/D bars have been made and trashed before. [[User:Toraen|'Toraen']]TheJanitorimage:ToraenSig2.png 21:37, 3 March 2010 (UTC) wow So the main reason this and the P/D build exist is because other than imbagon, most other para builds are bad and/or playing mostly imbagon gets boring (which is true)? And any sin or derv builds using these same attack skills work better than the para primary amirite? So aren't these two reasons exactly the thing you folks would use to apply your "well" policy or whatever it's called? Or this doesn't apply for this one since it's made by one of the admins? This site cracks me up, seriously checking some of the stuff here from time to time (and especially the workings and policies) is better than watching Seinfeld. Tx for the luls. :D 16:38, May 16, 2010 (UTC) :actually there's a pretty obvious explanation. The theory is you can't reroll for general PvE (by this i mean if you want to do storyline or vanq on a para, you have to play said para) so therefore it should only be compared to other paragon builds. Cross-profession WELL tags don't really work for player builds (heroes is an example of where cross-profession WELL tags do apply, because they can so easily be swapped for another). - ''Athrun''[[User talk:Athrun Feya|''Feya]] 17:02, May 16, 2010 (UTC) :to address the first point: imbagon is a more defensive build whilst this is offensive. WELLing this on the basis it is inferior to an imbagon is like WELLing a smite monk because it can't prot.. - [[User:Athrun Feya|''Athrun]][[User talk:Athrun Feya|''Feya]] 17:08, May 16, 2010 (UTC) ::Soooo by that logic if I posted a N/R beastmaster build with say Barbed Signet and a few blood skills for more pressure and a pet for damage that would end up in great cause if I wanted to play with a pet as necro I couldn't reroll a ranger? 13:45, May 19, 2010 (UTC) :::No, that would be trashed because it has terrible damage output, and is inferior to other necromancer builds that focus on damage (SS and MoP nukers, for example). This and the P/D have damage capability comparable to the primary profession versions (whoop de do, 2 two less attribute levels and less inherent crit chance). The disadvantages are at least compensated for in the build (GftE = crit rate up and TPiY = energy support for the party). R/D and W/D (also R/A and W/A) are good builds, and by this is just another primary profession abusing the OP nature of scythes (or daggers) in PvE. [[User:Toraen|'Toraen']]TheJanitorimage:ToraenSig2.png 17:34, 19 May 2010 (UTC) ::::Ok that sounds logical, but following that logic you seriously need to add Rt/A and Rt/D then, since Spirit's Strength, Asuran Scan, insert random scythe/dagger attacks (and Aura of Holy Might in case of scythes) is better than all this P/A, P/D poo. Oh and before you say it, Ghost Forge Insignia says hi, so "survivability" for a frontline caster is just fine. And energy is fine too. Wts zealous mod for daggers and inherently higher regen. 02:39, May 20, 2010 (UTC) :::::except you need a weapon spell, where all the weapon spells suck, and the rit is still a squishy frontliner. ritualist have spirit spam or glaive spam anyways. besides that, a ritualist is not a paragon. you might want to read what athrun said again.--[[User:Relyk|'Relyk']] talk 03:04, May 20, 2010 (UTC) ::::::We actually have the Rt/D as a team of two that cast GDW on each other somewhere I think. Might have been moved to an Any/D team though. [[User:Toraen|'Toraen']]TheJanitorimage:ToraenSig2.png 03:14, 20 May 2010 (UTC) Axe variant Hey I was wondering if this could be as good or even better using an axe? Bringing AoE attacks such as Cyclone Axe along with the 16 armor of a shield (r8 motivation shield that is) sounds good, but would the IAS be too slow? just a thought :The IAS would be too slow. [[User:Karate Jesus|'Karate']] [[User_talk:Karate Jesus|'Jesus']] 17:38, 6 July 2010 moo I found energy pretty manageable with that, but you lose party support and 20 armor. You do get 33%/25% IAS/IMS out of it though. LtW over CTT because it's at least a somewhat useful effect even if this is just PvE. --Toraen 00:57, 7 October 2010 (UTC) :to use SF, you have to maintain a shout, and the only ones viable are Ltw and ctt. Both maintaining sf and shouts can be a drain on energy. On the other hand, you can use drunken master, which saves an elite and slot and you can get near 33% if you really want to. it's really not. I'd prefer TPIY+drunken master mainbar since its simpler to use anyways--Relyk '''not@Wikia' 01:35, October 7, 2010 (UTC) ::Not everyone wants to buy alcohol to use a build, lol skakid9090 02:48, October 7, 2010 (UTC)